ZOOL

Reverse NERF characters...

Recommended Posts

There are characters in the game who have been over-nerfed, making them useless.

Example;
Arme, Total Attack of 71,000
Another Character (I dare not say what character), Total Attack of 24,000
Time Attack on Stage 1 Wizards Labyrinth
Arme: 2 Minutes roughly, and not consistent (highest close to 3 minutes)
Other character: 1 Minute 40 Seconds (highest 1 minute 50 Seconds), consistent over 6 runs back-to-back

There are other examples that I could of chosen from, but Arme is my favourite character, even though her overall damage is one of the lowest next to Dio.
Dio is another character who has been over-nerfed, his skills being almost useless, and other characters of the same Total Attack do a lot more damage much quicker.
I will go on about Arme in this context as she is the worst effected.

For some characters, the Nerfs go from extreme to out-right braking the character.
Some characters are plagued by glitches and bugs that are intermittent and cripple the player (weapons that don't do any damage at all).
There used to be some really good characters, now those previously 'good' characters are about as useless as a flat tire on a race track.
You wouldn't run an F1 around a race track without any tires, so why should we be expected to use characters in dungeons without skills that work.

Take the Healing Skill of Arme (First Job, Input X then D), it is a good skill, but it doesn't work very often.
Temperamental, the healing skill in many matches I've player recently, the skill doesn't heal me or my allies or as is most often, only heals 99 Health Points.
It should heal 33% of a health bar regardless of total Health points.
So from Fatal, should require 3 uses to recover to maximum health.
Regardless of if the character has 1000 Health Points or 6000 Health Points, it should be 33% every time without fail.

To balance it, if it could be done, ideally:
The Health Spell should give 50% in PvE (40% to oneself, and 50% to Allies would be best)
The Health Spell should give 25% in PvP (25% to oneself, and 30% to Allies would be best)
Depends how well it can be fine tuned.

The currently random health spell that only works sometimes if it feels like it is no good.
One can not play a support role if the spells don't work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so the NERF's are still an issue.

Characters that under-perform:
Elisis
Lire (Ranged attacks from First Job weapon)
Arme (First Job weapon all spells, Forth Job weapon operates OK apart from the spell called "The End" which does less damage than expected)
*Also note, The Shield Level 2 Spell collides with the Firebolt Spell when in Double Attack and Interrupted Attack.
Jin
Dio (Normal Attacks are as powerful as a sponge-ball is VS a tank, so useless)
*Also note, Many of the Skills in the First Job also perform poorly
Lass

I am yet to test other Characters (pending enough slots)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2019 at 4:33 PM, ZOOL said:

Dio (Normal Attacks are as powerful as a sponge-ball is VS a tank, so useless)

Dio is meant to be using alot of techniques and special attacks. His combo is there to deal minor damage when charging AP. Also, have you seen Onrush? This abomination seriously needs a nerf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are you talking about, it's about the only Skill that can actually do anything at all.
The other Skills on Dio's Tree are near to useless (I know, I've seen them in action, one of them over specialising in super large targets, useless against small targets).
Taking the Skill that forms a Aura around Dio to damage foes, it barely handles foes of half the level (LV75 Dio with 28K Total Attack VS LV30 Normal monsters not Bosses).
Then the aforementioned Skill that does a 4 hit burst in one direction, it is too wide spread and often misses targets that are too close or too small.
For you to say that the Onrush Skill needs to be nerfed, you're actually insane, sorry, but you'd have to be.

Please Note:
Usage of Skills in PvP should be restricted, that I can agree on.
However, that said, they should not be made useless in PvE just to facilitate PvP.

If the other Skills for each of the other Characters were 'Reverse Nerfed' then the Onrush Skill would be balanced compared to the other Skills.

I'm a LV85 Arme with 102K Total Attack, and I watch in horror as other Characters of half my Total Attack walk all over dungeons like they are nothing.
I had a Lime say that the King Slime Land was easy, and they had only 100K Total Attack themselves.
They can SOLO King Slime Land in under 20 Minutes.
I tried to SOLO King Slime Land, 40 Minutes later, I'm still on the same level, I lost due to my arthritis getting the better of me.
Dio walks into King Slime Land SOLO, has to rely solely on the Onrush Skill to do heavy damage and then hope the target doesn't just jump to and down (which it always does).

Dio doesn't need a NERF, most everyone else needs a Reverse-Nerf.

 

The game shouldn't be an endurance test of see who can survive for a whole hour solid.
There isn't even a pause button.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, ZOOL said:

What are you talking about, it's about the only Skill that can actually do anything at all.
The other Skills on Dio's Tree are near to useless (I know, I've seen them in action, one of them over specialising in super large targets, useless against small targets).
Taking the Skill that forms a Aura around Dio to damage foes, it barely handles foes of half the level (LV75 Dio with 28K Total Attack VS LV30 Normal monsters not Bosses).
Then the aforementioned Skill that does a 4 hit burst in one direction, it is too wide spread and often misses targets that are too close or too small.
For you to say that the Onrush Skill needs to be nerfed, you're actually insane, sorry, but you'd have to be.

Well, people are using Dio solely for Onrush (well, most people).

I'm not one to use techniques when playing Dio (I'd rather combo and wait for special attacks) so I wouldn't know much about them but I have a 50k TA lvl 85 Dio without Onrush and I can tell you his special skills are pretty decent against both small and large enemies if you know how and where to aim them. Your examples are far too specific too call all of his skills useless, makes you look like you never used Dio whatsoever (I don't mean to offend).

I didn't say Dio needed a nerf, I was targeting Onrush only. One can't just barge in and kill freakin' Kazeaze (ToD stage 5, if memory serves) in one go.

15 hours ago, ZOOL said:

I'm a LV85 Arme with 102K Total Attack, and I watch in horror as other Characters of half my Total Attack walk all over dungeons like they are nothing.
I had a Lime say that the King Slime Land was easy, and they had only 100K Total Attack themselves.
They can SOLO King Slime Land in under 20 Minutes.
I tried to SOLO King Slime Land, 40 Minutes later, I'm still on the same level, I lost due to my arthritis getting the better of me.
Dio walks into King Slime Land SOLO, has to rely solely on the Onrush Skill to do heavy damage and then hope the target doesn't just jump to and down (which it always does).

Don't get me wrong, I see those things too as a Elesis/Ryan main (240k/105k TA). Some characters have more ease than others while running normalized stats dungeons, I can agree with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh please buff Dio's weapon force on PVE and Elesis. Speaking of Elesis, she also has a bug on her 2nd job where she rarely stops and other mobs are moving just fine. Casting a skill will make her invulnerable, however the skill won't activate unless something hits you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking of bugged Weapon Jobs, Arme and the Magic Lamp.
Input Pressed: Z / Z, Z / Z, Z, Z / Z, Z, Z, Z
Issue, she rubs the Lamp once, then stands idel doing nothing.

How is this any good to anyone, at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ZOOL said:

Talking of bugged Weapon Jobs, Arme and the Magic Lamp.
Input Pressed: Z / Z, Z / Z, Z, Z / Z, Z, Z, Z
Issue, she rubs the Lamp once, then stands idel doing nothing.

How is this any good to anyone, at all.

I know right??? Warlock is just so.. ugh from my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I do not believe some characters need a nerf reverse.

 Dio for example was a ridiculously unbalanced character about others.  With extreme ease of play and damage, becoming the most used character by only owning a special ability that can be used without limits.

 What the characters really need is difficulty, and in this difficulty the damage is compensated.  That is, they need systems more worked according to their concepts.

 As much as many characters have this and I know (Lire) the Staff is already working at its maximum, it is and was already aware of such needs.  However there is not only this to be done in the game.

 So we need to be more patient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With current Control Schemes (by the way, Joypad Controls are still bugged), I do not believe that difficulty is a factor that can be included (button mashing is not an answer).
As someone with arthritis, I know that one of my favourite characters (Lire) is not a character I can use (at any length of time) for this reason.
Button Mashing Z at high-speed (enough to destroy fingers and keyboards alike) is not an answer as this only promotes the usage of Rapid-Fire macros.
I am unsure as to whether GC-Madness actually prohibits the usage of these types of macros, but I do know that a lot of companies do.

As for Dio's Skill 'Onrush' being OP, I can see where you're coming from in some parts.
However, that said, it is dependant on the monsters not jumping out of the way (they constantly do).
Also, it is exclusively the only skill that is of any use in multi-purpose capacity.
In action, I've seen how poorly the other skills perform.
I would only agree to the 'Onrush' skill being slightly nerfed so long as the other skills were equalised.

Looking at Arme's performance, it is very clear that her performance dropped from the original updates (from the original Season 5 cross-over) that nerfed Arme.
Arme's skills (based upon a 102K Total Attack):
Shock-Stun (LV2) - The issue is with poor damage output. This skill used to be very good when it was first introduced, but is now only good against lower level enemies.
Meteor - Good as a splash of low damage, just to get the attention of every enemy on the map, but very low damage.
Cure (LV2) - This is one of the most bug-ridden skills going. Often being activated only to give 100 HP to the caster and no HP to allies (even outside of combat), this skill needs to be repaired, and badly. It should give a consistent amount based upon a percentage of Total HP of both caster and allies.
The End - By its name, you would expect that it would be a very powerful skill. However, it often doesn't perform as expected, often coursing the enemies to skill-spam back-to-back jumping.
The Lamp and its standard attack - Why does she stand Idle and do nothing no matter how many times you press Z. She needs to have some form of normal attack function, such as pulling a genie out to do a basic melee attack like a genie swiping a claw out.

Then there is Edel, which often strikes behind targets and in turn misses them.
Primary Attack (Z and Z Repeatedly) can't be used in some situations, as the targets are too thin to strike.
Taking Demon Cores for example, it can take a lot of trial and error before I get lucky enough to actually hit the target (taking several minutes to get enough hits onto the target).
This is particularly annoying when trying to complete Hero Dungeons, I often have to get other players into the session just to solely take down Demon Cores.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, ZOOL said:

With current Control Schemes (by the way, Joypad Controls are still bugged), I do not believe that difficulty is a factor that can be included (button mashing is not an answer).
As someone with arthritis, I know that one of my favourite characters (Lire) is not a character I can use (at any length of time) for this reason.
Button Mashing Z at high-speed (enough to destroy fingers and keyboards alike) is not an answer as this only promotes the usage of Rapid-Fire macros.
I am unsure as to whether GC-Madness actually prohibits the usage of these types of macros, but I do know that a lot of companies do.

I understand this question of Lire, and it involves many things, because his concept of archer is completely flawed in Grand Chase.

1 hour ago, ZOOL said:

As for Dio's Skill 'Onrush' being OP, I can see where you're coming from in some parts.
However, that said, it is dependant on the monsters not jumping out of the way (they constantly do).
Also, it is exclusively the only skill that is of any use in multi-purpose capacity.
In action, I've seen how poorly the other skills perform.
I would only agree to the 'Onrush' skill being slightly nerfed so long as the other skills were equalised.

Dio in fact needs more utilities, I have made a reformulation for him, but the topic is in PT-BR (I intend to put in English). But he does need a difficulty, when I say that, I talk about more elaborate ideas that lead players to think and learn to use the character, not just to press a key.

1 hour ago, ZOOL said:

Looking at Arme's performance, it is very clear that her performance dropped from the original updates (from the original Season 5 cross-over) that nerfed Arme.
Arme's skills (based upon a 102K Total Attack):
Shock-Stun (LV2) - The issue is with poor damage output. This skill used to be very good when it was first introduced, but is now only good against lower level enemies.
Meteor - Good as a splash of low damage, just to get the attention of every enemy on the map, but very low damage.
Cure (LV2) - This is one of the most bug-ridden skills going. Often being activated only to give 100 HP to the caster and no HP to allies (even outside of combat), this skill needs to be repaired, and badly. It should give a consistent amount based upon a percentage of Total HP of both caster and allies.
The End - By its name, you would expect that it would be a very powerful skill. However, it often doesn't perform as expected, often coursing the enemies to skill-spam back-to-back jumping.
The Lamp and its standard attack - Why does she stand Idle and do nothing no matter how many times you press Z. She needs to have some form of normal attack function, such as pulling a genie out to do a basic melee attack like a genie swiping a claw out.

I like Arme and in fact some things in it need improvement, especially the third-class combo, it's totally meaningless, actually there's no combo.

1 hour ago, ZOOL said:

Then there is Edel, which often strikes behind targets and in turn misses them.
Primary Attack (Z and Z Repeatedly) can't be used in some situations, as the targets are too thin to strike.
Taking Demon Cores for example, it can take a lot of trial and error before I get lucky enough to actually hit the target (taking several minutes to get enough hits onto the target).
This is particularly annoying when trying to complete Hero Dungeons, I often have to get other players into the session just to solely take down Demon Cores.

I play Edel and I have one at level 85. The fact that it is difficult to attack certain monsters as nuclei, I would say normal.  However, Edel might have other things to help her catch the monsters.  So in this case it's a character matter.  Some characters have more facility than others in hitbox combo issue.  Edel no matter how difficult it is, when he can get some monsters he deals a great damage easily.

-

On the whole I would say that there needs to be more patience for changes like these, because the Staff is aware that it is super necessary, but we need to demonstrate understanding and that everything can not be done when we want, because there are other things besides that  need to be seen as well. For example the continent missions.  It is no use changing the characters and not changing the continent missions, a server can not survive only from event missions.  What's more, they've already taken a giant step in balancing the characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You people got time to complain? while ya'll have the luxury to get full mp from almost any pets and not to mention your 3 mp skills is equivalent to onrush when you can just spam it with hero potions, 1st of all dio already got anally nerfed via s5 and onrush isn't even that op at all. The skill itself is utter garbage at tod granted that 90% of the damn bosses are immune to it, while the rest of you guys can just 1hit them with your lires, lass and lime whatsoever, if you guys got time to complain about nerfs, go back to league of legends, it sounds like you guys don't even remotely enjoy the game. I've had it with this damn dio hates.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, on the note of Edel:
If it was a real weapon, you wouldn't thrust your Rapier behind the Target and give them a hub and a big wet kiss to boot.
So why does this happen in the game? (GC Logic)
Let's say, your other skills were disabled due to a Core inside an Event Dungeon (Skill Lock). How would Edel win in such a Dungeon?
She wouldn't be able to is the answer.
It should be a simple matter of fixing the Collision Box so that everything in front of her can be hit (just Move the Box inward a bit, it doesn't even need to be bigger if you're that worried about it's actual size).

So, then there is Lire:
How is my concept of an Archer Floored?
Just because actual real-life archery may damage your fingers if you don't use a bow correctly, and can cause cramp anyway during extended operation, is not to say that it should have equal consequence on a computer game.
NOTE: A Computer Game
A Computer Game should be relaxing and fun to play, not destructive to your fingers and your keyboard (especially as keyboards are £10 GBP per unit).
I understand that Lire is an Archer and that as such, extra effort may be required for full-on performance.
However, that said, button-mashing isn't an answer.

The other matters:
To resolve the issues regarding 'difficulty' I believe that extra buttons are needed.
There needs to be more usage of the keys if you want to bring difficulty in as a factor.
Button Mashing does not substitute for difficulty as this only aids in singling out players/users and limiting them to using Characters that don't require so much of it.
Rapid movement across a screen is bad enough, but destroying your Z button until it sticks so bad you can't even type in 'Howzit going' without it turning into a fiasco of Howzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........Insufficient Memory...[BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH].
That, is not on.
Include more buttons, you increase the Skill required for the game, in turn, increase the difficulty in an appropriate way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm new in this private server and notice about this nerfed nerfed to return to the original states actually those nerfed is already implement when the s5 when in. So for the players please understand and adopt to the s5 system. The original server which is KR is nerfed it on purpose to bring balance in all the characters. If some of you keep complaining about the nerfed, might want to find a s4 private server? Just a suggestion though

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now